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	<title>Comments on: Using Ford Madox Ford to Fix Wolverine</title>
	<atom:link href="http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/</link>
	<description>Alexander Chee</description>
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		<title>By: In Defense of Marie Calloway &#124; Irreverently</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-33979</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[In Defense of Marie Calloway &#124; Irreverently]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-33979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Brody is well-structured (very Ford Maddox Ford): we are placed in the action; the background is woven into the story; requisite development, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brody is well-structured (very Ford Maddox Ford): we are placed in the action; the background is woven into the story; requisite development, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;I think there are a lot of American critics who try to pretend that I don&#8217;t exist at all.&#8221; &#171; Koreanish</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-3924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;I think there are a lot of American critics who try to pretend that I don&#8217;t exist at all.&#8221; &#171; Koreanish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 04:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-3924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to project right into my brain.  Dos Passos was a part of the same group of American writers as Ford Madox Ford, Modernist writers who were trying to make novels not just out of the vernacular and introducing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to project right into my brain.  Dos Passos was a part of the same group of American writers as Ford Madox Ford, Modernist writers who were trying to make novels not just out of the vernacular and introducing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Links &#171; Stuff</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2275</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Links &#171; Stuff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Using Ford Madox Ford to Fix Wolverine. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Using Ford Madox Ford to Fix Wolverine. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2263</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lately I&#039;ve been noticing the whole &quot;start in the middle&quot; thing a lot more in what I&#039;m reading, and each time my annoyance with it grows.  I&#039;m hoping it&#039;s the misuse of the idea that you describe - but I see advice indicating that use of said device is really &quot;the&quot; way to write commercially these days - so, I&#039;m wondering if most just have that little pearl of wisdom without the rest of the necessary knowledge to flesh it out.

That being said, that&#039;s for not being ashamed to admit you saw Wolverine.  I knew it would suck, and I still went to see it, and I still... kind of enjoyed it for what it was.

I think your take would have been a great starting point for repair and made the move is it was much more watchable, but agree with John a bit in the sense that they dug a damn deep hole for themselves.  Screenwriters/director/whoever really should be ashamed.  Nevermind my annoyance with STILL casting white people as Natives of various flavors (Really, is it THAT hard?).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lately I&#8217;ve been noticing the whole &#8220;start in the middle&#8221; thing a lot more in what I&#8217;m reading, and each time my annoyance with it grows.  I&#8217;m hoping it&#8217;s the misuse of the idea that you describe &#8211; but I see advice indicating that use of said device is really &#8220;the&#8221; way to write commercially these days &#8211; so, I&#8217;m wondering if most just have that little pearl of wisdom without the rest of the necessary knowledge to flesh it out.</p>
<p>That being said, that&#8217;s for not being ashamed to admit you saw Wolverine.  I knew it would suck, and I still went to see it, and I still&#8230; kind of enjoyed it for what it was.</p>
<p>I think your take would have been a great starting point for repair and made the move is it was much more watchable, but agree with John a bit in the sense that they dug a damn deep hole for themselves.  Screenwriters/director/whoever really should be ashamed.  Nevermind my annoyance with STILL casting white people as Natives of various flavors (Really, is it THAT hard?).</p>
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		<title>By: Character Flaw &#171; Koreanish</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Character Flaw &#171; Koreanish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] where they end up too much like Roombas that can&#8217;t turn themselves around. This of course is why Joseph Conrad was afraid of Ford Madox Ford&#8217;s pursuit of knowledge around writing&#8211;he feared it would harm more than it would help to know what exactly what one was doing. And [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] where they end up too much like Roombas that can&#8217;t turn themselves around. This of course is why Joseph Conrad was afraid of Ford Madox Ford&#8217;s pursuit of knowledge around writing&#8211;he feared it would harm more than it would help to know what exactly what one was doing. And [...]</p>
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		<title>By: koreanish</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[koreanish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks on the first part. 

On the last, to be very clear, I wasn&#039;t suggesting an orthodoxy for all writers and stories everywhere---the abolition of the soft opening. Please don&#039;t misrepresent me as such as you debate me on this. And for that matter, neither was Ford. Ford&#039;s theory began as a description of what most writers of his time were doing in reinventing the novel to represent consciousness, and was supposed to be illuminating, not the declaration of a new order. And it was an illumination many were suspicious of, including Conrad, who felt it was better not to know how one made anything. 

Your and Brian&#039;s point about the misuse of it suggests that these people know what they&#039;re doing--and they don&#039;t, is what I&#039;m trying to say. They&#039;re more like the apes in Planet of the Apes inside the space ship, trying to make something fly and not knowing how it was made or why.

Also, I really had no problems with the special effects that I could recall. For this exercise, I was working inside of the elements the film provided---partly because I didn&#039;t have the inclination to pursue Wolverine&#039;s many back stories outside of what the current film provided (see under &quot;the corn syrup of...&quot;)---Wolverine currently exists as a character in at least 12 comics right now, all ongoing, and with different incarnations of him.

As for White Tiger, I found the first chapter unbearable the three times I tried it, and gave up. Whatever charm the book exerts is lost on me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks on the first part. </p>
<p>On the last, to be very clear, I wasn&#8217;t suggesting an orthodoxy for all writers and stories everywhere&#8212;the abolition of the soft opening. Please don&#8217;t misrepresent me as such as you debate me on this. And for that matter, neither was Ford. Ford&#8217;s theory began as a description of what most writers of his time were doing in reinventing the novel to represent consciousness, and was supposed to be illuminating, not the declaration of a new order. And it was an illumination many were suspicious of, including Conrad, who felt it was better not to know how one made anything. </p>
<p>Your and Brian&#8217;s point about the misuse of it suggests that these people know what they&#8217;re doing&#8211;and they don&#8217;t, is what I&#8217;m trying to say. They&#8217;re more like the apes in Planet of the Apes inside the space ship, trying to make something fly and not knowing how it was made or why.</p>
<p>Also, I really had no problems with the special effects that I could recall. For this exercise, I was working inside of the elements the film provided&#8212;partly because I didn&#8217;t have the inclination to pursue Wolverine&#8217;s many back stories outside of what the current film provided (see under &#8220;the corn syrup of&#8230;&#8221;)&#8212;Wolverine currently exists as a character in at least 12 comics right now, all ongoing, and with different incarnations of him.</p>
<p>As for White Tiger, I found the first chapter unbearable the three times I tried it, and gave up. Whatever charm the book exerts is lost on me.</p>
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		<title>By: John Wiswell</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Wiswell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was a great way to illuminate Ford&#039;s theory. I can&#039;t think of any essay that explains it better for the unitiated audience. However, I&#039;m not with you on your conclusions, especially about how this might have fixed the movie.

I&#039;m with Brian to a degree. &quot;Action, and then this&quot; far too frequently translates to &quot;Flashback, and then this&quot; or &quot;Flashforward, and then this&quot; in film and in the prologues of Fantasy novels, and I&#039;m pretty tired of them. Your recommendation to do that for X-Men Origins: Wolverine wouldn&#039;t fix the awful special effects (his claws often look photoshopped on), egregious alteration from what was interesting about the source material (Sabretooth&#039;s his brother now, he got the adamantium willingly, and I can&#039;t believe *that&#039;s* how he forgot all this), or anything else that&#039;s wrong with it (stapled-on romantic treakle, Reynolds/Deadpool is the most entertaining character and we get rid of him as soon as possible). The movie did not just need a tweak. 

Making things out of sequence does not fix everything and is cloyingly common these days. It can be done well - Batman Begins follows your advice and was quite good. The film version of Jurassic Park does the same, and Crichton&#039;s novel actually does it multiple times before giving you the plot. But it&#039;s really on authors, screenwriters, directors and producers to come up with better uses of Ford&#039;s idea. I&#039;m not even convinced that all stories need dramatic openings - Shakespeare managed to open several of his most successful plays with little action, and sometimes with pure exposition (even if what was said about Denmark was dramatic). I recently read Avarind Adiga&#039;s Man-Booker-winning White Tiger, which has an amusing first paragraph, but an incredibly inactive first chapter that was nonetheless charming and drew me into the voice that defined the book. Even more low key openings do work. It may actually be that the first scene does not need to be particularly dramatic, but to introduce a worthwhile quality of the book (or comic book adaptation summer blockbuster) before entering storytelling proper. I&#039;m more convinced that the &quot;Action, and then this&quot; model is one way to open a good story, and not the only one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a great way to illuminate Ford&#8217;s theory. I can&#8217;t think of any essay that explains it better for the unitiated audience. However, I&#8217;m not with you on your conclusions, especially about how this might have fixed the movie.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Brian to a degree. &#8220;Action, and then this&#8221; far too frequently translates to &#8220;Flashback, and then this&#8221; or &#8220;Flashforward, and then this&#8221; in film and in the prologues of Fantasy novels, and I&#8217;m pretty tired of them. Your recommendation to do that for X-Men Origins: Wolverine wouldn&#8217;t fix the awful special effects (his claws often look photoshopped on), egregious alteration from what was interesting about the source material (Sabretooth&#8217;s his brother now, he got the adamantium willingly, and I can&#8217;t believe *that&#8217;s* how he forgot all this), or anything else that&#8217;s wrong with it (stapled-on romantic treakle, Reynolds/Deadpool is the most entertaining character and we get rid of him as soon as possible). The movie did not just need a tweak. </p>
<p>Making things out of sequence does not fix everything and is cloyingly common these days. It can be done well &#8211; Batman Begins follows your advice and was quite good. The film version of Jurassic Park does the same, and Crichton&#8217;s novel actually does it multiple times before giving you the plot. But it&#8217;s really on authors, screenwriters, directors and producers to come up with better uses of Ford&#8217;s idea. I&#8217;m not even convinced that all stories need dramatic openings &#8211; Shakespeare managed to open several of his most successful plays with little action, and sometimes with pure exposition (even if what was said about Denmark was dramatic). I recently read Avarind Adiga&#8217;s Man-Booker-winning White Tiger, which has an amusing first paragraph, but an incredibly inactive first chapter that was nonetheless charming and drew me into the voice that defined the book. Even more low key openings do work. It may actually be that the first scene does not need to be particularly dramatic, but to introduce a worthwhile quality of the book (or comic book adaptation summer blockbuster) before entering storytelling proper. I&#8217;m more convinced that the &#8220;Action, and then this&#8221; model is one way to open a good story, and not the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for pointing out this middle/beginning/end formula, since i&#039;m now conscious of why i&#039;m so dissatisfied with most studio movies: because they all follow the same formula. the flashback intro has really started to grate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for pointing out this middle/beginning/end formula, since i&#8217;m now conscious of why i&#8217;m so dissatisfied with most studio movies: because they all follow the same formula. the flashback intro has really started to grate.</p>
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		<title>By: koreanish</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[koreanish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of Lamott or of Ford? Lamott gives credit to Ford for it, but the resultant transformation of it into a formula I know gives some people the heaves. Ford was trying to describe how he believed the coming novels (back then, as he rallied the Modernists) should look more like people think. And in conversations I&#039;ve had with Deborah Eisenberg about story, she&#039;s talked about creating a model of consciousness. 

The ABDCE mode Lamott describes makes that into a soapbox derby racer, though it is handy as a mnemonic device, even if it erases subtlety, as...all mnemonic devices tend to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of Lamott or of Ford? Lamott gives credit to Ford for it, but the resultant transformation of it into a formula I know gives some people the heaves. Ford was trying to describe how he believed the coming novels (back then, as he rallied the Modernists) should look more like people think. And in conversations I&#8217;ve had with Deborah Eisenberg about story, she&#8217;s talked about creating a model of consciousness. </p>
<p>The ABDCE mode Lamott describes makes that into a soapbox derby racer, though it is handy as a mnemonic device, even if it erases subtlety, as&#8230;all mnemonic devices tend to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Pendarvis</title>
		<link>http://koreanish.com/2009/09/19/using-ford-madox-ford-to-fix-wolverine/#comment-2180</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack Pendarvis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koreanish.com/?p=1330#comment-2180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max Shulman once started a novel like this, as a parody of that first technique: &quot;Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on the biggest adventure of my life . . . But first let me tell you a little about myself.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max Shulman once started a novel like this, as a parody of that first technique: &#8220;Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Four shots ripped into my groin, and I was off on the biggest adventure of my life . . . But first let me tell you a little about myself.&#8221;</p>
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